Merry Christmas
Rudds War on Sceptics - What happened to Democracy?
Its an understatement to say I and many others were shocked to see Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd on the ABC TV news last night openly declaring war on anyone who is sceptical of his governments proposed Emissions Trading Scheme, any one who is sceptical of him signing away a large part of our national sovereignty via the Copenhagen Treaty and anyone who is sceptical of the IPCC computer modelling predictions of catastrophic global warming.
In deed Rudd's broadside is not just an open attack on we sceptical and concerned Australians but every sceptic anywhere in the world.
In his amazing outburst he said:
"The truth is this is hard, because the climate change skeptics, the climate change deniers, the opponents of climate change action are active in every country.
"They are a minority. They are powerful. And invariably they are driven by vested interests."
Are we the minority or has Kevin Rudd just declared war on more than 50% of the developed worlds population ?
Recent survey figures by the Lowy institute - where Kevin Rudd made this address yesterday suggest that in Australia he has just declared war on more than half of the population:
"The most recent Lowy Institute poll found that while 48 per cent of Australian believe that global warming is a serious and pressing problem, the numbers are down 12 points since 2008 and 20 points down since 2006. “This is also the first year that it has not had majority support,” said the Lowy Institute."
And in the USA:
A survey last month by the Pew Research Centre suggests that the proportion of Americans who believe there is solid evidence that the world has been warming over the last few decades has fallen from 71% to 57% in just 18 months. Another survey, conducted in January by Rasmussen Reports, suggests .... US voters who believe global warming has natural causes (44%) outnumber those who believe it is the result of human action (41%).
When you read Rudds entire speech you'll see striking similarities to leading UK journalist and alarmist George Monbiots Guardian article this week where he declares -
Climate Change Denial Spreading Like a Disease
"There is no point in denying it: we're losing. Climate change denial is spreading like a contagious disease. It exists in a sphere"
Incredibly Rudd goes on the attack against hundreds of millions of people world wide who are sceptical and over ten million people in Australia alone that dare to question his Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme and his wanting to sign the Copenhagen treaty. He declares such people are:
"radicals"
Climate change skeptics in all their guises and disguises are not conservatives. They are radicals.
"dangerous"
"Climate change deniers are small in number, but they are too dangerous to be ignored.
"Well resourced"
They are well resourced and well represented by political conservatives in many, many countries."
Well resourced. This is an incredible statement.The Australian government, the UN and world governments have spent hundreds of billions of dollars trying to prove Global Warming is happening and can't. Their whole premise is still today based on IPCC computer modelling, which for the last ten years has been hopelessly inaccurate.
The worlds mainstream media for the last decade has been unrelenting, bombarding us with doomsday predictions. Billions and Billions dollars of free media coverage on news, current affair and documentary.
No the rising tide of scepticism has been fueled by ordinary people. People like the Agmates community members , using the internet to share information, ideas and facts. This is not a well resourced campaign - this is democracy at work in its purest form. This is a grass-roots movement powered by millions of people sitting at home computers searching for and sharing information and facts.
Monbiot quotes in his article:
"A study by the website Desmogblog shows that the number of internet pages proposing that man-made global warming is a hoax or a lie more than doubled last year. The Science Museum's Prove it! exhibition asks online readers to endorse or reject a statement that they've seen the evidence and want governments to take action. As of yesterday afternoon, 1,006 people had endorsed it and 6,110 had rejected it. On Amazon.co.uk, books championing climate change denial are currently ranked at 1, 2, 4, 5, 7 and 8 in the global warming category. "
No longer can public opinion be controlled by the mainstream media - the internet has destroyed that ability. Not only now are we directly connected to each other, but to every other person in the world. We have access to information from any corner of the planet and we are connected to the politicians who choose to listen to and represent us .. like fellow Agmates member Senator Barnaby Joyce.
It is interesting that the Prime minister singles our champion out in his rant:
"Again, Senator Joyce - fearmonger in chief on climate change"
Rudd acknowledges that the troubles he is having with the mood of scepticism is global: :
"The legion of climate change skeptics are active across the world ....
Together, these groups, alive in every major country including Australia, constitute a powerful global force for inaction,
The challenge we face, and others around the world face, is to build momentum and overcome domestic political constraints.
When Rudd says "domestic political constraints" its diplomatic speak for the will of the people, i.e. voter backlash.
"The truth is this is hard, because the climate change skeptics, the climate change deniers, the opponents of climate change action are active in every country."
The Australian writing about Rudds speech said:
"In an address to the Lowy Institute, Mr Rudd vows to push ahead with the government's greenhouse gas reduction regime and accuses climate change sceptics of attempting to erode the political will to obtain meaningful action."
This is a struggle between a delusional Prime Minister ranting and raving like a spoilt child, trying to impose his political will on the majority of the people. He rants and raves about the influence that we sceptics have over the conservative side of politics in this country.
"The tentacles of the climate change skeptics reach deep into the ranks of the Liberal Party, and once you add the National Party it's plan the skeptics and the deniers are a major force."
Last time I looked that is exactly the way a democracy is supposed to work. If a large enough number of people / voters are not happy with the course of legislation that a government is proposing it is our duty and right to lobby the cross benches to block the legislation.
It is outrageous that our own Prime Minister, the leader of our supposed democracy would brand us "dangerous radicals" for exercising our democratic right.
Rudd even admits that citizens around the world are lobbying to stop their governments passing emissions trading legislation that will harm their countries economies. He says about the climate sceptics globally are ...
Powerful enough to so far block domestic legislation in Australia, powerful enough to so far slow down the passage of legislation through the US Congress. And ultimately - by limiting the ambition of national climate change commitments - they are powerful enough to threaten a deal on global climate change both in Copenhagen and beyond.
Is it any wonder that Kevin Rudd is hell bent on signing Australia up to the one world government Copenhagen Treaty that makes no mention of elections or democracy only rule by unelected bureaucrats . He declares:
"The Australian Government is also committed to intensively engaging to support an ambitious agreement in Copenhagen."
From Australian prime Minister Kevin Rudds outburst it is obvious that the democratic system is an incredibly annoying and frustrating obstacle to his global ambitions. That is a very serious and very dangerous development for our democracy.
News limited Chief Rupert Murdock said in the Weekend Australian that Rudd is delusional if he thinks Australia can lead the world on Climate Change.
On the government's push to legislate on climate change before most other Western countries, Mr Murdoch said it was "a bit delusional .... that we can set an agenda for the world".
"It would nice if we could, but we are kidding ourselves, deluding ourselves if we really believe it. And if we start putting up the cost of living in this country, when no one else is doing it, we put ourselves at a real disadvantage."
We now need to triple our efforts to ensure the CPRS is voted down in the Senate. Then let Rudd call an election. We the sceptics will show him at the ballot box what a democracy is all about.
END.
In deed Rudd's broadside is not just an open attack on we sceptical and concerned Australians but every sceptic anywhere in the world.
In his amazing outburst he said:
"The truth is this is hard, because the climate change skeptics, the climate change deniers, the opponents of climate change action are active in every country.
"They are a minority. They are powerful. And invariably they are driven by vested interests."
Are we the minority or has Kevin Rudd just declared war on more than 50% of the developed worlds population ?
Recent survey figures by the Lowy institute - where Kevin Rudd made this address yesterday suggest that in Australia he has just declared war on more than half of the population:
"The most recent Lowy Institute poll found that while 48 per cent of Australian believe that global warming is a serious and pressing problem, the numbers are down 12 points since 2008 and 20 points down since 2006. “This is also the first year that it has not had majority support,” said the Lowy Institute."
And in the USA:
A survey last month by the Pew Research Centre suggests that the proportion of Americans who believe there is solid evidence that the world has been warming over the last few decades has fallen from 71% to 57% in just 18 months. Another survey, conducted in January by Rasmussen Reports, suggests .... US voters who believe global warming has natural causes (44%) outnumber those who believe it is the result of human action (41%).
When you read Rudds entire speech you'll see striking similarities to leading UK journalist and alarmist George Monbiots Guardian article this week where he declares -
Climate Change Denial Spreading Like a Disease
"There is no point in denying it: we're losing. Climate change denial is spreading like a contagious disease. It exists in a sphere"
Incredibly Rudd goes on the attack against hundreds of millions of people world wide who are sceptical and over ten million people in Australia alone that dare to question his Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme and his wanting to sign the Copenhagen treaty. He declares such people are:
"radicals"
Climate change skeptics in all their guises and disguises are not conservatives. They are radicals.
"dangerous"
"Climate change deniers are small in number, but they are too dangerous to be ignored.
"Well resourced"
They are well resourced and well represented by political conservatives in many, many countries."
Well resourced. This is an incredible statement.The Australian government, the UN and world governments have spent hundreds of billions of dollars trying to prove Global Warming is happening and can't. Their whole premise is still today based on IPCC computer modelling, which for the last ten years has been hopelessly inaccurate.
The worlds mainstream media for the last decade has been unrelenting, bombarding us with doomsday predictions. Billions and Billions dollars of free media coverage on news, current affair and documentary.
No the rising tide of scepticism has been fueled by ordinary people. People like the Agmates community members , using the internet to share information, ideas and facts. This is not a well resourced campaign - this is democracy at work in its purest form. This is a grass-roots movement powered by millions of people sitting at home computers searching for and sharing information and facts.
Monbiot quotes in his article:
"A study by the website Desmogblog shows that the number of internet pages proposing that man-made global warming is a hoax or a lie more than doubled last year. The Science Museum's Prove it! exhibition asks online readers to endorse or reject a statement that they've seen the evidence and want governments to take action. As of yesterday afternoon, 1,006 people had endorsed it and 6,110 had rejected it. On Amazon.co.uk, books championing climate change denial are currently ranked at 1, 2, 4, 5, 7 and 8 in the global warming category. "
No longer can public opinion be controlled by the mainstream media - the internet has destroyed that ability. Not only now are we directly connected to each other, but to every other person in the world. We have access to information from any corner of the planet and we are connected to the politicians who choose to listen to and represent us .. like fellow Agmates member Senator Barnaby Joyce.
It is interesting that the Prime minister singles our champion out in his rant:
"Again, Senator Joyce - fearmonger in chief on climate change"
Rudd acknowledges that the troubles he is having with the mood of scepticism is global: :
"The legion of climate change skeptics are active across the world ....
Together, these groups, alive in every major country including Australia, constitute a powerful global force for inaction,
The challenge we face, and others around the world face, is to build momentum and overcome domestic political constraints.
When Rudd says "domestic political constraints" its diplomatic speak for the will of the people, i.e. voter backlash.
"The truth is this is hard, because the climate change skeptics, the climate change deniers, the opponents of climate change action are active in every country."
The Australian writing about Rudds speech said:
"In an address to the Lowy Institute, Mr Rudd vows to push ahead with the government's greenhouse gas reduction regime and accuses climate change sceptics of attempting to erode the political will to obtain meaningful action."
This is a struggle between a delusional Prime Minister ranting and raving like a spoilt child, trying to impose his political will on the majority of the people. He rants and raves about the influence that we sceptics have over the conservative side of politics in this country.
"The tentacles of the climate change skeptics reach deep into the ranks of the Liberal Party, and once you add the National Party it's plan the skeptics and the deniers are a major force."
Last time I looked that is exactly the way a democracy is supposed to work. If a large enough number of people / voters are not happy with the course of legislation that a government is proposing it is our duty and right to lobby the cross benches to block the legislation.
It is outrageous that our own Prime Minister, the leader of our supposed democracy would brand us "dangerous radicals" for exercising our democratic right.
Rudd even admits that citizens around the world are lobbying to stop their governments passing emissions trading legislation that will harm their countries economies. He says about the climate sceptics globally are ...
Powerful enough to so far block domestic legislation in Australia, powerful enough to so far slow down the passage of legislation through the US Congress. And ultimately - by limiting the ambition of national climate change commitments - they are powerful enough to threaten a deal on global climate change both in Copenhagen and beyond.
Is it any wonder that Kevin Rudd is hell bent on signing Australia up to the one world government Copenhagen Treaty that makes no mention of elections or democracy only rule by unelected bureaucrats . He declares:
"The Australian Government is also committed to intensively engaging to support an ambitious agreement in Copenhagen."
From Australian prime Minister Kevin Rudds outburst it is obvious that the democratic system is an incredibly annoying and frustrating obstacle to his global ambitions. That is a very serious and very dangerous development for our democracy.
News limited Chief Rupert Murdock said in the Weekend Australian that Rudd is delusional if he thinks Australia can lead the world on Climate Change.
On the government's push to legislate on climate change before most other Western countries, Mr Murdoch said it was "a bit delusional .... that we can set an agenda for the world".
"It would nice if we could, but we are kidding ourselves, deluding ourselves if we really believe it. And if we start putting up the cost of living in this country, when no one else is doing it, we put ourselves at a real disadvantage."
We now need to triple our efforts to ensure the CPRS is voted down in the Senate. Then let Rudd call an election. We the sceptics will show him at the ballot box what a democracy is all about.
END.
Tags: -, dangerous, democracy, deniers, kevin, radicals., rudd, sceptics
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Peter Jesser on -
Please - not just "radicals". We are "free radicals" - that's even more dangerous. Rudd missed his chance for the perfect metaphor but there's no doubt that he sees anyone opposing his views as a potential "free radical" in his carefully controlled system. He might not have been referring specifically to Agmates but I think we would be in that boat.
We should be thankful that we are free to weigh up the evidence for ourselves, free to state our views and free to dissent. Quite a few votes will be cast at Copenhagen on behalf of people who do not enjoy such rights. Will Rudd count them as 100% in support simply because they have no voice?
On Agmates specifically, for those entrenched in power, the "problem" is that it has some very articulate people, many of whom have good technical knowledge and are in touch with the latest information. I come to Agmates to hear what they have to say and find out why they say it. Agmates is also a well moderated site. I believe that will be the key to its ongoing success. Sensible views and sound argument will attract sensible people who want information. Agmates can withstand any attack as long as it maintains that standard.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Truman - Agmates on -
G'day Peter,
Another good comment. - "free radicals" I like that. Free speech is a wonderful gift. Facilitating members right to free speech and keeping Agmates mainstream is another challenge, one that must be managed everyday.
Thanks for your words of encouragement and great to have you on board posting and sharing your information, ideas and opinions. I'm sure you will create a following within the community in no time. I know I have my personal favourites that that i read everything they post, because its always great information or its entertaining.
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Permalink Reply by terence shanahan on -
The problem with all this stuff Peter, is that there is no outlet except the internet
which sources new scientific findings or dissenting scientific voices. Both the
government and the opposition seem to treat the whole topic as just an electoral
topic, chase the votes of the public they refuse to educate on this treaty, seem
to refuse to keep up with the science as reported on the net, which might make them
reconsider what they are doing. In Turnbull's case he hasnt even read the treaty.
Some commentators try to be true to themselves and the public but the editorials,
even in The Australian are very much following the leader. Meanwhile the government
and the media bombard the public with the biggest scare campaign in history.
This is the biggest case of propaganda I have ever seen, dwarfing the workchoices one.
It is sold on lies by Rudd and Wong - we must do this to save the Barrier Reef, the Murray-
Darling etc - when they know Australia and its emissions are so small as to make us
redundant in what happens to anything even if you are a believer. Worse still, the ETS and
the Copenhagen Treaty are both designed to be tax collection devices, one to solve our
government debt problems and the other to prop up 'developing countries' half of which
are run by despots, many of whom hate our guts and we are to have no say in how the
money is delivered and to whom. This is over and above foreign aid resources, must be paid regardless of financial conditions, an interest paid on any backlog plus penalties and enforcable
by international isolation if necessary (and one clause interpreted as using armed force if necessary.)
It is one thing to say the UN will set up and control
the governance of this and enforce the treaty - except that wont apply to the big powers
like Britain, France, Russia, the US, China who all have veto powers or can just say 'get lost'.
There cannot be a central UN governance on this basis and we should not go near signing
nor consider signing such a document, even if we thought it was good in theory, which I
dont.
Free and not so radical Terence ( a glass of wine, a bit of broccoli and Kiwi fruit to boot)
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Permalink Reply by Will Cannon on -
great stuff steve
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Permalink Reply by Janet H. Thompson on -
As I've said before, this IS still a democracy, and ordinary people can bring it back into line!
We the sceptics will show him at the ballot box what a democracy is all about. Here, here, AgMates!
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Permalink Reply by Tony Ryan on -
Peter Jesser... very witty. Looks like we can expect the odd sharp stick poked by you.
Murdoch is notoriously disloyal. He was wooed by Hawke, then dumped Hawke in favour of Keating; then abandoned Keating in favour of Howard. As Howard succumbed to megalomania, he backed Rudd. Now that Rudd has gone the same way Rupert Murdoch is sinking the boot in, partly out of self indulgence, but mostly as a signal to other politicians that he is available for those who would seek audience; meaning, aspiring Prime Ministers of either major party.
Murdoch is finally losing it. He has already announced charges for Internet media, and only four weeks later postponed these until 2010. Two weeks ago Rudd was king, now he is sacked.
What Murdoch does not, and cannot, realise is that an entire generation of 'leaders' have failed, and exasperation is driving a cynical electorate to flex muscle at last. We are about to see People Power come to the fore... as Janet Thompson has predicted.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff T Hutcho on -
I really hope the sceptics, and ordinary thinking people show Clive Hamilton what democracy is all about in Higgins.
This person would make a good gulag guard to imprison sceptics and anyone using carbon based fuels.
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Permalink Reply by terence shanahan on
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Steve, Obama stated the other day that they would have to do something about scientists who dont follow the global warming belief and propagate the sceptics beliefs. Rudd is merely following suit.
For those who believe the Rudd line, you MUST inform yourself of the contents of the Copenhagen Treaty. You can do this by simply googling 'Copenhagen Treaty' and read on. A commentator on the ABC last Thursday stated that the facts were decided, only the legalese had to be settled. Hence you will find many choices written in italics or brackets enclosing 'ífs' , 'buts', 'maybe's etc which makes it a bit of a troll but you quickly get the gist.
For everyone else we really need an item in special advertisements or a part page spread to give just the above message. ie "if you have a computer, you must google and read the Copenhagen Treaty yourself. Know what your global warming politicians have in line for your future - believer or sceptic".
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Permalink Reply by Kevin Michael Pattel on -
If climate change were real I believe that the scientific world and Government should be looking for and funding a fix for the problem, instead they are spending copious amounts of money on trying to prove and convince the population that a problem exists, with a proven solution and a long term program to build alternative methods to existing systems that demonstrate a significant impact on climate change then they would establish some credibility, it seems that the sole objective at the moment is to extract as much money as possible then worry about the solution, which of cause will never come.
I am a business person and in my business I have never paid for a truck before it was built, why should we pay for a solution to a problem we can’t see and are not sure it even exists, further to that, it is the population that has to do the hands on work and prove that they are working towards fixing the perceived problem or be fined or jailed or both for not complying, on top of that we will be taxed off the face of the earth.
Kevin Rudd’s tirade condemning climate sceptics are the antics you would expect from a spoilt brat, I’m surprised he didn’t stamp his feet and spit the dummy, is this bloke really the leader of this country? It seems he believes his view is sacrosanct, how dare the people question his beliefs.
For my money climate change is a lavish extortion racket perpetuated by the Green Governments of the world and we should fight it to the death.
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Permalink Reply by Terry Wright on
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I've got a gut feeling that Rudd knows he will not achieve or be party to a Global Treaty at Copenhagen. He may be loopy but the rest of the world isnt. Instead of returning to Australia after Copenhagen with a grin like a cheshire cat he will hopefully return with a good dose of colic. He can then bag the metrhane from his own farts and explain how he is going to pay for his ill conceived stimulus packages which were also delusional. basically what he has done is inject money which has become inflationary and now causing our interest rate to rise as well as unemployment. Like the proposed tax on emissions his economic and monetary policy is now beginning to hurt his grass root supporters. Gillard will soon snatch his job as he will have no credibility after Copenhagen he knows it and he is fearful of it. That is why he is launching attacks on the sceptics as he like any spoilt child is looking to blame someone else for his unmitigated political stupidity. Tyrants and despots like Rudd have no place in a democracy. Having failed in Copenhagen he will then push for a republic and of course can again rely on stupid Turnbulls support. Is Turnbull labour or liberal, government or opposition? He is certainly not Australian
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Permalink Reply by Graham Hk on
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Terry, you echo my sentiments entirely. What type of person is this bully boy. Incredible to think a party fully endorses this apology for a, hesitate to use the word, leader. Unfortunately as you suggest Turnbull, who could have easily shown leadership qualities in these circumstances, has failed abysmally. Worse, he is actually falling in line with Rudd. How the Opposition members must cringe. Let us hope the Senate holds good and shows these no-hopers where to go. Look at Britain - RIP - Blair sells them out to Europe and is now to become unelected leader of that centralised unelected government. Wonder what the payoff is for Rudd? Even the co-founder of Greenpeace has apologised for the activists who took over and exaggerated everything for political reasons. To use a Whitlamesque phrase, "God help Australia, the ALP wont."
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Schroeter on
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Great Job Steve,
And on that note.... everyone will serve our Democracy well by remembering all the politicians names who are in the Doomsday/ New World Order Goverment Club at the next Election.
These politicians will then have something too truely worry about.
Personaly.....I don't think this issue is going away in any hurry, as the Rudd camp and the U.N puppeteer's behind the seens have their mind set on pushing the ET's through no matter what... for they are the true radicals.
Now that the "Cat is out of the bag" this being the mind set of the Copenhagen Treaty Rudd evidently... will push like hell now to get the ET's through for he is running out of time for the next election.
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